Horary Astrology Reading: Is the Talking Fish Story True?

May 25, 2009 by  

Horary Astrology: Is the Talking Fish Story True?

There was a talking fish in a New York market a few years ago, issuing warnings in Hebrew to repent because the end is near. Many people interpreted it as an ill omen for the then-impending Iraq war. I find omens fascinating, but most of them verge on the ridiculous (yes, I speak of the grilled cheese Virgin Mary). This seemed just odd enough to warrant an astrological inquiry. After reading about the talking carp, I immediately wondered whether the story was true; the Guardian article mentions that it could have been a practical joke, but I had my doubts. So, I cast a horary chart, asking “Is the talking fish story true?

12:44 pm, May 1, 2009, 37N25 122W08

Is the Horoscope Valid?

First, I checked the horoscope for radicality, the indication that the question was asked properly and not out of idle curiosity. Because this is not a story which involves me personally, I wanted to make sure that the chart was solid, and that the heavens were on board with this question, as it were.

The ruler of the hour is Mars, which is of the same nature as the rising sign, Leo. Both are hot and dry, and therefore the chart is radical. Moreover, Mars is in its own domicile in Aries, placed in the ninth house of religion and God. As is often the case with Mars, the lesser malefic, the story does not end well for either the butcher, who, in attempting to kill the fish, sliced into his own thumb and had to be hospitalized, nor for the carp, which was eventually chopped up into gefilte fish. If it was an omen presaging a war in distant lands, then Mars in the ninth house would take on another layer of significance.

Find the Fish

The carp is symbolized by the Moon, which rules all fish; Al-Biruni says that the Sun rules all large fish, and carp definitely counts as a large fish. Moreover, the Moon is in the terms of Mercury, so it is a large fish endowed with the gift of speech. Note that the Moon and the Sun are in mutual reception by major dignity; it is as though the fish had been suddenly enlightened, the heavens parted, and it spoke. The Sun, of course, represents divine inspiration.

But Did the Fish Really Speak?

William Lilly, in his Christian Astrology (p.192-194), has a few pointers on determining whether a rumor is true. Our horoscope, amazingly, hits all of the points mentioned by Lilly:

  • Lilly says that the Moon in the Ascendant means the rumor is true; here, we have the Moon in Leo on the Ascendant.
  • If Lord one is angular, the rumor is true; this chart has the Sun in the 10th house.
  • If the angles are fixed, the tale is true; all the angles in our chart have fixed signs.
  • The Moon angular makes the story true; we have already established that this is the case in our horoscope.
  • If the dispositor of the Moon is angular and in a fixed sign, the story is true. The Moon’s dispositor is the Sun, and it is in Taurus in the 10th house.
  • If the Moon is separating from a malefic and applying to a benefic that is angular, the tale is true. Here, the Moon separates from a trine to Mars and applies to a square with angular Sun.

One cannot help but draw the conclusion that the story is indeed true. If the heavens speak to us in signs we do not understand, we must try to unfold their meaning.


7 Responses to “Horary Astrology Reading: Is the Talking Fish Story True?”

  1. Free Astrology Resources » Blog Archive » Blogs, Blogs & More Blogs on May 25th, 2009 5:42 pm

    […] If you’d rather just read about other people solving horaries, Ask Christine is discussing Bonatti’s attempts to answer the question What’s for lunch?, while Nina Gryphon uses horary to investigate an apparent omen from God in her post Horary Astrology Reading: Is the Talking Fish Story True? […]

  2. Nina Gryphon on May 28th, 2009 2:31 pm

    From an anonymous email about this post:

    “Dear Nina, I hope you may reconsider your conclusion on the talking fish. An article for which I am including a link ran this year. Zalman Rosen is quoted as saying \”things happened. Tricks were used. They used to put alcohol and bread in the mouth of the fish to make it look alive.\” It would seem very likely in the light of that quote that the talking fish was a PR ploy Zalman used as a \”trick\” to create some buzz and curiosity about the market during Passover. http://www.shalomnewyork.com/kosher/zalmen-rosen-holds-a-live-carp-at-the-new-square-fish-market/

    Anonymous, though well-meaning, had missed the point of this article. The very reason I asked this question is because some dismissed the story as Passover trickery. The horoscope is unusually clear in showing that the story is indeed true. If, on the other hand, Anonymous has astrological reasoning on this point, I would welcome it.

    Best wishes,

  3. Amethyst on May 29th, 2009 6:33 am

    I really enjoyed reading your post and the chart! This is a very elevated form of horary. Given the subject matter, the signs of the Lights make me think of Genesis. The Moon in the Sun’s sign recalls ‘the Spirit brooding over the waters’; the Sun in an earthy sign recalls the divine breath that animates the dumb lump of clay. The Lights behold one another by square, as if to say “we are struggling to be God’s presence.” Certainly appropriate symbolism for an omen horary!

    Okay, enough poetry. I got carried away. What do you make of the condition of Lord 3? Do you consider L3 relevant? Venus is in her detriment, in the eighth house. Or have you determined that this is not a ‘rumor’ type of question?

    Thanks again.
    Amethyst Wells-Mendelssohn

  4. Nina Gryphon on May 29th, 2009 6:59 am

    Hi Amethyst,

    Glad you liked it. This horary was too good not to share. The Moon and Sun connection really makes me think of the clouds parting to the sound of an angelic choir, and a single beam of light shining on the hapless carp, which then begins to speak.

    The third house does not enter into Lilly’s judgment of these charts, which is interesting. He does mention Mercury, which I read as “what is being said”. It is angular and in its domicile, so I don’t think anyone is lying, but the fact that it is in an airy common sign indicates that there no unanimous opinion on this story (see comment 2).

    Best wishes,

  5. Joseph on May 31st, 2009 4:43 pm

    “… on 28 January at 4pm they were about to club the carp on the head when it began yelling.” –from the above link

    When the time of the occurrence is known, are we not to use it instead? This was right after the eclipse, I recall.

    Either way, I loved the post! It’s rare to see a horary fulfill all the aphorisms and makes this story even more incredible.


  6. Nina Gryphon on May 31st, 2009 5:26 pm

    Joseph –
    I thought of using the event chart, too, and if I didn’t care about knowing what really happened (i.e.: didn’t ask a radical question), I definitely would have used the event instead.
    Best wishes,

  7. sho on May 8th, 2012 3:15 pm

    i love your interpretations. i wish you will post more horary charts , we learn from you

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